bohat ala!!!!
THIS MATCH IS SUPERB!
it has put me on a high
that nothing ever has.
yeah crazy..but thats me
hats off to PAKISTAN
it's sad that INDIAN audience has lost spirit
posted by ~meyum & a half~ at 2:36 PM
Sunday, April 17, 2005
About Me
- Name: ~meyum & a half~
- Location: Pakistan
~a little bit of laughs, a little bit of quirkiness,a dash of dance..sprinkle of lows,with a perfect touch of absolute highs~
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35 Comments:
I feel sad for the Indians, which is only fair since they felt sad for Pakistanis on the ground :P
You know, if they start behaving themselves then winning a match in Indian wouldn't be as much fun as it is now :D
hahha yeh true faraz.
i remember a very very well behaved supportive audience when India came to Pakistan last year
yeh but thats fun yehh!
Apologies . And congratulations.
ops...no, no offence intendedd.sorry:)
none taken. :)
i totally agree with you. Bangalore for example. There was pin drop silence in a ground filled to capacity when aamir sohail and saeed anwer were whacking the ball all over the place. on the other hand, when the indian team comes over, and tendulkar and sehwag are beating the hell out of our bowlers, you get applause. hell i can appreciate good cricket, be it indian.
there should be some reciprocity from the other side...they shouldn't just sit there like sore losers...
again, no offence tipsy...just what i feel and what i have observed quite a few times
bingo!!!!but i guess its few bad reactions that reflect on the others. sad but true.
and yes exactly..its been very good cricket (the past few matches)and if anything we should all appluad a good performance.
on some level i agree with faraz. if they were sportsmanlike about it, it wouldnt be half as much fun...but then thinking back to the match at karachi just last year, they won and it was a great game and you should have seen the pakkis get up and give 'em hospitality worth remembering on what theis popularly considered enemy soil. makes me proud to be a pakistani.
Agreed. Pakistani hospitality outclassed theirs in the ground.
Just a small thing: The crowds did not behave the way they did becuase we lost to "Pakistan". It was just about losing, not who we lost to.
Again, no offence has been taken and there is genuine sense of apology.
Also, in some ways, my perceptions are being questioned. We are always made to believe that India is the tolerant and patient one...is this behavior a reflection of something bigger? No clue! Unfortunately our opinions about our respective countries will remain biased. I wonder if there is any way of really knowing the facts..
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yes losing would put anyone in a foul mood..but i guess its a PAKISTAN AND INDIA thing which takes things onto a diff level altogether.
and then it really isnt a "we are better or they are better" ..at the end of the day.
reflection of something bigger??hmm
not really..and yes somethings do provoke us into being biased..but thats ok..as long as we are able to pacify thinsg on any level.:)
youve been a good sport tipsy:)
i can understand why indians feel they are the tolerant ones. I didn't know jack about international relations till i came to lums and actually read unbiased non-paki-state-sponsored-crap. (incidentally, if you havent read anything on pakistan but the state sponsored crap you are fed in matric/o levels, get out and read)
the indian foreign policy is one of regional hegemony - the big brother in the region that wants to be looked up to as a great power. it would make sense to encourage your citizens to believe in in your (the state's) tolerant attitude towards the childish and petulant pakistan, insisting on kashmir and the like.
im not sure i agree about the losing to anyone. i do agree losing sucks on any level but i think the india pakistan rivalry is soo multifaceted that it makes for a sorer loss.
im sure there are deeper issues ofcourse, but arent there always. i just feel we as a generation have so much more to get out of being friends than enemies. its a simple uncomplicated stance. (even tho i find myself jumping with joy at having beaten the pants off india) :)
Pakistani team played well, kudos to them !!
I am sorry for the crowd behaviour.
Cheers !!
I did not want to put this in my earlier comment as bad publicity for one's own country doesn't make sense. But, the indian audience has a great history of bottle missiles. I remember a series against West Indies (or was it Zimbabwe?!) where these incidents happened at EVERY SINGLE match and nets had to be put up, etc. We lost four matches to Pak on the trot but the bottles thing happened only in the last one. It had nothing to do with the Indo-Pak rivalry. That's my opinion :)
Tree_Elf: I didn't know for quite some time where exactly the LoC runs and was surprised to see that such a major part of Kashmir is governed (lets leave out the term occupied ;) ) by Pakistan. What amused me was the fact that students of India and Pakistan study overlapping maps! If a Pakistani student draws her/his country's map, she/he will take that part of Kashmir as part of Pakistan's territory while the Indian would consider it part of India's territory. Considering that we think of our country as our mother, I guess our mothers share a bit of their head (ok, I know that sounds stupid :P)
Ok..i am going to speak on. Pls excuse.
India itself is like a set of different countries. The diversity that we have and the fact that we have infiltration happening all across the northern/eastern border makes us take a tough stance. We need to assert our unity and size.
Supposedly, Pakistan is spreading terrorism in Kashmir, Bangladesh keeps sending refugees all the time, there are infiltrators in the North East getting support from millitants in China (?), Sri Lanka has its own set of terrorists... aise mein we need to act powerful!
When I talked of changing perceptions, it was about imagining a more peaceful Pakistan than the impression I currently had. (ok,..ur turn not to take offence..pls pls)
Jammie, I totally agree with ur stance. and OUCH OUCH for beating the pants off bit :D
Yes our impression of each other are different and I don’t think it’s a country wide thing, Pakistan too has its share of extremists who would bash Indians at any given opportunity and so would Indians.
And it's great that people like us are changing that perception because we are willing to have a dialogue without a protocol red tape thing happening on the side.
It’s a sport and we all(you and i) would go hyper crazy given a chance, if either of the teams lost against the other and again I would say that its just the attitude of a few which reflects on the entire nation..
I was watching Geo the other day and one Indian was being interviewed and he just went to say that “thankgod Musharraf is not harping about Kashmir now…it’s like that’s all he could talk about earlier”
ouch that hurt:(
the foundation of the social sciences appears to be the ability to decide that there is no average man; no average american, no average pakistani, no average muslim terrorist. There are no monolithic structures. So yes, I totally agree with Tipsy when she says India is like several different countries; a multi-nation state rather than a nation state.
So I know there is no average Indian, and that every man, every sect, every people in India have their own reasons and their own agendas.
That said, I would like to encourage you to be a leeetle more questioning when it comes to accepting ideas of nation, indian identity, pakistani identity, pakistani agenda etc...
There is a great deal of mistrust on both sides and with good reason. Partition, Bangladesh, 2 Wars, Kashimr in general, the Water Treaty, Kargil.....hell, I know we send in people into your country. But for us, Kasmir is part of us. So it's not 'inlfiltration' for us. On the other hand, we are continously told by media how India refuses to hold a UN led plebescite in 'occupied' Kashmir cuz it knows it will lose; the muslim population is (used to be anyway, when the whole damned thing started) too big. There are even reports of forced displacement of muslims.
Khair. I don't why I am rambling. Waisay I would really like to see survivors of the partition from both sides sit down and discuss the issue. See what comes out.
Whew! My longest post yet methinks!
its another post altogether:)
you thinks right elf:)
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Congratulations! Heard a lot in many blogs..:) all I can say is appreciate good cricket..as its a sport just like any other game like Base Ball or Soccer..the best performance gets it rest they get to learn..thats how I take it :)
Seems here lot of them to pity on Indians and the players...cheers to both ;)if that keeps them happy!
Elf,
We also believe with the same passion that Kashmir is part of our country.
The reason for not holding a plebiscite is probably the fact that the original Kashmiri population mix is no longer present in Kashmir. A sizable population of Kashmiri pandits have been forced to leave/murdered and their properties seized. This has been acieved through sending terrorists/ freedonm fighters into Kashmir by Paksitan. If a plebiscite is now held and the vote appears in favor of accession to Pakistan, it will set a precedent. It would imply that Pakistan can send in terrorists into a muslim dominated area, kill all Hindus and then claim that part of our country as their own. (I know it sounds extreme, no offence intended)
While writing this and re-reading ur comment, I realised that it seems Hindus would vote for India and Muslims for Pakistan. I guess there would be Muslims willing to vote for India too, but due to the Paksitani influence, their numbers may be less than the Pakistan favouring Muslims.
The challenge before us I think is to forget the partition and look at the situation from the perspective of the youth. Why should a piece of land belong to one country and not to another? Who decides that? Should the LoC be made the border and both sides forget about the Kashmir belonging to the other nation? (the danger of this is repetition of a mini patition)
We have a situation that is in a mess. Forget history. What can be done that will stop this mindless violence ASAP and the resources being wasted on the proxy war be put to use for improving the welfare of the Kashmiris and of the other people in the countries??
yes at times it does seem like a mindless war..why can't both India and Pakistan just leave kashmir alone!why the hell do we have to claim it as ours...in the process god alone knows how many have been killed..the war has been on since forever and its time it ended and and kashmir could decide for its own..but then the whole influence comes in..people of kashmir have been brain washed, terrorised etc into beliveing that they have to be with one country.
hmm. I would disagree.
We cannot forget history. That never pays. History sets precedent, gives data to theorize about possible actions the other player might choose in any given scenario. Politicians don't just forget the past and move on.
Regarding the killing of hindu pundits:
As I pointed out earlier, I was questioning propoganga from both sides - Pakistani and Indian. So it is entirely possible that Pakistan mounted a campaign to reduce the number of hindus in Kasmir. (Doesn't make sense logically though. Eliminating/reducing people of a certain ethnicity/religion would seem to me to be easier to carry out for the military occupying the region; not a bunch of starving hiding 'mujahideen'. A small group that infiltrates always carries out guerilla (how do you spell that again?) warfare, not mass genocide. So I really don't think that argument of yours holds (though a variation of it might. Wheels within wheels. A story within a story? :D)
I like the idea of killing the proxy war and saving resources. But the 'average Pakistani', I can guarantee, is going to continue to hate India. I am pretty sure that's true for the average indian on the street as well.
I personally do not see demilitarization in the region. India has a foreign policy of regional hegemony. It wants to be the big brother. That means trying to be stronger militarily than everyone around. If India strengthens, Pakistan is going to be scared and will react by arming itself.
The cycle will never end (theoretically).
There are no morals involved when states deal with each other, a fact most educated Pakistanis and Indians pay lip-service to yet do not really realize.
You try to justify the actions of your government. I do the same. We both say: My government is justified. Like hell they are. States do not consider morals. They consider survival and growth. That's what India will consider, whether it's China or Pakistan.
I do hope we can atleast MINIMIZE the conflict though.
Elf,
if you don't want to forget history, then remember the numerous years we lived together as one people, they far outnumber the ones we have spent as two different nations.
let us be more optimistic. I believe that the average Pakistani shall not continue to hate Indians and vice versa. I will not hate Pakistanis, tell my friends to do the same, and teach my chilren to love and respect them too.
I will not say that my government is justified in everything they do. If they are indeed behind the killings of the Hindus in Kashmir, they are not justified!
Meyum (dats ur name i guess), u thought i was a guy?! :O
ah such idealism! youth!
and, i wouldnt go about floating the idea of pakistan and india eventually becoming one. I mean, REALLY REALLY not go about saying that.
:D
kafi lamba thread ho gaya hai...meyum is feeling left out...let's move on shall we?
didn't mean we should reunite...
u r right! kaafi lamba ho gaya. but it was great! thanks Meyum, thanks Elf. Just a song I heard on the car stereo today which instantly reminded me of u guys:
Panchi Nadiya Pawan Ke Jhoke
Koi Sarhad na inhein roke
Sarhad insaanon ke liye hai
Socho tumne aur maine
Kya paaya, insaan hoke
Cheers!
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